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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » What was Saruman's ring? (Page 1)
Author Topic: What was Saruman's ring?
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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What was Saruman's ring?


Was it one of those trifiles spoken of which were said to be simple essays of the elven smith skill?

quote:

In Eregion long ago many Elven-rings were made, magic rings as you call them, and they were, of course, of various kinds: some more potent and some less. The lesser rings were only essays in the craft before it was full-grown, and to the Elven-smiths they were but trifles - yet to my mind dangerous for mortals. But the Great Rings, the Rings of Power, they were perilous

Or was it a ringhe forged himself?

quote:

But I rode up to the foot of Orthanc, and came to the stair of Saruman...He wore a ring on his finger." In the same section Saruman declares "For I am Saruman, the Wise, Saruman the Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours

AND What did he use it for?

  • To dominate his hoards
  • etc.


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  • Nimruzir
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    AFAIK, Saruman's ring was not a Great Ring (or what would be equal or even near to any of the 20 Great Rings).

    Try re-reading the Foreward to Fellowship where The good Professor expands upon a 'could have been' according to what WOULD have transpired if an analogy with the WWII was made.

    He states that Saruman would have found the 'missing links' in his research in the ruins of Barad-dur and THEN constructed a Great Ring (meaning that he did not have one and in fact was incapable of creating one due to missing information).

    It would no doubt be accurate to stipulate that Saruman had made a LESSER Ring (what Gandalf describes as 'Trifles' in Shadow of the Past).

    Of what powers, dubious as they may be, this ring has (or others that may have been constructed have) are, to my knowledge, not expanded upon.

    ------------------
    Sínome Endor maruvan ar hildinya tenn'ambar-metta


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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    I never said it could be a great ring I put forth the possibility that it could have been one of the lesser rings also created by the smiths of C
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    Gandalf Greyhame
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    I do not truly know what to say. In the "Unfinished Tales", it talks of a hidden steel closet at Orthanc on pg.289 where King Elessar, when restoring Orthanc opened the closet with Gimli's help. There they found a necklace with a pendant, possibly made for holding the One Ring if ever he obtained it, and is thought to have once been Isildur's. Also they found the long lost Elendilmir. Maybe a yet unfound secret yet lies at Orthanc? (!!!)

    ------------------
    May your shadow never grow shorter.


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    Roll of Honor Nenya
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    I think that Saruman med it himself, an attempt to imitate Sauron, who he wanted to replace.

    quote:
    "Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours! "

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    Orome
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    sorry to get a bit off topic but what was elendilmir???
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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    The Star of Elendil: a diamond which was a heirloom of the North-Kingdomwhcih represented the star of Earendil which helped guide the Faithful after the Akallabêth.

    ------------------
    "si lelyannanye andavë sérënya, nu Timbreting mi oiale mardi, mammen yulm i Valar, mammen calim lanta sila i Earenna"
    Sin firnë i aran ve Eldarin lindar care linder


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    Estel
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    The ring could possibly given him the power of his voice. For instance, I think, Narsil gave Gandalf many of the powers he had with fire. Is this possible or did he have the power of his voice before he made the ring?
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    Tuor
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    I believe that if Saruman made his ring he must have infused it with his own power. I don't get why any god would decrease his own power just to have a ring. I understand why Sauron created his ring, to control the others, but what was Saruman's supposed to control? Was he just trying to be like Sauron, or did he just have ring envy?
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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    No Aragorn, it is specifically said the three elven rings were not made as weapons of war, tthe powers Gandalf had with fire and lightning and such were his own. The elven ring Narya simply aided him in putting a fire in the hearts of the enemies of Sauron, and that is specifically stated.
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    Shadow Gale
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    "But I rode up to the foot of Orthanc, and came to the stair of Saruman... He wore a ring on his finger." In the same section Saruman declares "For I am Saruman, the Wise, Saruman the Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours."
    [The Fellowship of the Ring]
    We are told in several places that the study of the lore of the Rings of Power was Saruman's province. It is quite possible and plausible that Saruman created his own ring of power and used this ring to control and dominate his army of orcs, wargs, and half-breeds. After all he was a Maia (of Aulë, the smith) and possessed great power.

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    Roll of Honor Mandin
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    As Tuor mentioned earlier, why would you want to lessen your own power by putting it into a ring? If you did so then if you lost the ring you in essence lost your power. Sauron did it, though, and somehow he put in it a way to control the elven rings. Perhaps you can fashion something into rings that gives you power over others that otherwise you would not have - Perhaps Suraman over his orcs or whatever as has been suggested. I think that would explain why Suraman would make a ring and why Sauron made the one.
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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    Saruman was totally infatuated and obsessed with the Rings of power and so since he obviously couldn't get his hand on one he tried to create one himself and in doing so (even though his ring was obviously incomparible to the Rings of Power) proped himself up as almost akin to the smith of C
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    Roll of Honor Nenya
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    Saruman copied Sauron in a lot of fields, and it is not impossible taht he tried to maka a new ruling ring, which should compete with the one.

    Like Sauron, Saruman was one of Aule's maiar, and he may have had knowledge from Valinor about noldor's way to work. And together with the information about the rings of power he could find in ME, this knowledge could be enough for Saruman to try to make his owns rings. He had not succeded by the time for the war of the ring, and would probably not succed if he had had time to continue. But Saruman is not known to under-estimate his own power.

    I think Saruman made his ring for power until he had found the one ruling ring. And maybe his own ring should help him to find the one.


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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    I don't see how?
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    Roll of Honor Nenya
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    What is it you don't understand, Fingolfin?How Saruman could make the ring?
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    Tuor
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    I think Fingy doesn't understand how Saruman's ring was supposed to help find Sauron's ring. At least that was what I was wondering.

    The track I thought you were on Nenya was that Saruman was intending to create other rings of power. In an attempt, to hand them out and control Men, Elves and Dwarves with his ring of power, just as Sauron tried with The Ring of Power.


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    Roll of Honor Nenya
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    RE: I think Fingy doesn't understand how Saruman's ring was supposed to help find Sauron's ring.

    In two ways:
    1. A ring that gave him more control over his slaves and his enemies would help him to take the ring from whoever (Frodo, but Saruman didn't know that) had it.

    2. The bearer of the one ring could read the other ringbearer's minds. If Saruman could make a ring that could help him to read the bearer of the one ring's mind, it would be easier to find it.

    (The #2 has evolved in my mind and I don't saying that it iis true. It may just be my fantasy. )


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    Shadow Gale
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    In many places it talks about when Frodo put on the Ring, Sauron reaached toward him with his long shadow/arm.
    Like the end of The Fellowship of the Ring when Frodo was escaping Boromir and went the the Seat of Seeing (?).
    Maybe Saruman hoped to do the same. Or, maybe he was hoping to add more power to his so he could bend the Palantír more to his will so he could find the Ringbearer himself.

    Just a thought

    ------------------
    When winter first begins to bite
    And stones crack in the frosty night,
    When pools are black and trees are bare,
    'tis evil in the Wild to fare.


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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    Where did you get the idea that Saruman could make a Ring of Power comproble to Sauron's. I haven't heard that any where.
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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    Here is a quote from HoME 7 "The treason of Isenard":

    quote:

    But whatever the words are, the meaning is clearly that Saruman had aquiared the last of the rings--and wore it on his finger as appears subsequently in this text.(cf. Fellowship of the Ring p. 271)

    This quote is pretty clear as to tolkien's intentions regarding that ring


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    brenarion
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    Fingolfin, that quote from HoME isn't clear to me. The last of which rings? The 20 are all supposedly accounted for. (except perhaps the seven)
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    Roll of Honor Nenya
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    RE:Where did you get the idea that Saruman could make a Ring of Power comproble to Sauron's. I haven't heard that any where.

    I don't think he could, I just suggested that he believed (or hoped) he could do it or learn how to do it.

    I mean there is no proof that his ring really had power, but maybe it had in Sarumans dreams...


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    Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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    The last of the trifle rings of Eregon perhaps, as previously suggested. Anyway that quote shows tolkien's intention to have Sarumans's ring be one of the Rings forged in Eregon.
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    Tuor
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    Then what ring was Saruman supposed to have made? Or was he just so far gone, that he actually believed that he created that ring? Or was Saruman only trying to play it off, as if he created the ring, in order to impress people?
    From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
    Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » What was Saruman's ring? (Page 1)
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