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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » What happened to the Entwives? (Page 2)
Author Topic: What happened to the Entwives?
Sam Gamgee
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The books never say that trolls were made from Ents. Orcs were twisted Elves, but I don't remember reading that Ents were captured and made into Trolls. I know the Trolls were made in mockery of Ents, but I don't think they were once Ents. I've searched through tolkien's letters but I couldn't find anything more.
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Roll of Honor Ecthelion of the Fountain
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just because its not in letters dont mean crap, im without my books this week, visiting the old fam (damn dailup) but im sure the answer if it is to be found (about trolls being a mockery of ents) that it would be in the quenta or myths transformed of home

my two cents on the entwives bit, theyre dead, but tolkien didnt want to say they were dead, it would be closing a door that he really didnt want to close

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Bergil the Guard
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melkor could never make ...he could just twist and mutate.....

so trolls....might've been ents

or maybe made from the stone giants...in mockery of the ents....

[ 09-14-2002, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: Bergil the Guard ]

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Aerel
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I would like to take Nimruzir’s hypothesis on the Entwives being enslaved one step further. Although I don’t believe they were used as spies, I think Sauron put their knowledge of the earth and of growing things to a better use. In Letter #144 Tolkien says:

quote:
Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metalworkers.
I think this links directly in with ‘The Land of Shadow’ chapter II, Book Six:

quote:
Neither he nor Frodo knew anything of the great slave-worked fields away south in this wide realm, beyond the fumes of the Mountain by the dark sad waters of Lake Núrnen; nor of the great roads that ran away east and south to tributary lands, from which the soldiers of the Tower brought long wagon-trains of goods and booty and fresh slaves. Here in the northward regions were the mines and forges, and the musterings of long-planned war;
I believe some of the slaves working in these fields are Entwives, captured and enslaved by Sauron. Although later on Aragorn gives these lands to the freed slaves (which would suggest that the slaves working there are men) of Mordor:

quote:
…and the slaves of Mordor he released and gave to them all the lands about Lake Núrnen to be their own.
I think that by this time the Entwives had either died or were not seen. One would assume that Aragorn would tell Treebeard if he’d seen the Entwives.

Letter #144 states that:

quote:
If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult -- unless experience of industrialized and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic.
Tolkien himself does not know. I would like to think that maybe there were still some left dwelling beside Lake Núrnen and that maybe a few of the younger, more adventurous Ents had gone to find them. As Aragorn said:

quote:
“Yet maybe there is now more hope in your search,” said Aragorn. “Lands will lie open to you eastward that have long been closed.”
Thank you for reading this post. I would welcome any criticism or questions of my theory.
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Dunadan
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Treebeard clearly believed that trolls were made in mockery of ents:

quote:
'Ho, hm, well, we could, you know! You do not know, perhaps, how strong we are. Maybe you have heard of Trolls? They are mighty strong. But Trolls are only counterfeits, made by the Enemy in the Great Darkness, in mockery of Ents, as Orcs were of Elves.

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Roll of Honor theWhiteLady
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Tolkien later stated Treebeard was mistaken... Though I don't have the HoMe letter to back that up! Perhaps Aerel or another of our Tolkien scholars can back me up []
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Thingol of Doriath
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Aerel- You came to the same conclusion I did. I always thought that the reference to slave worked fields around Nûrnen was hinting at Entwives.

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"I inhaled. That was the point." -Barack Obama

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Orofacion of the Vanyar
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I wouldn't think the entwives would last very long in a place like Mordor, regardless of where in that black land. Despite their conciousness, they were still plant like and needed certain substance to stay alive. Not to mention that ents seem to have a direct connection with the earth itself, more so than elves I'd like to say, at least in the physical sense so a place like Mordor would be incredibly difficult to cope with for a plant creature.

Interesting theory though. []

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Arutha
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They simply had enough and left, they probably wanted to live in an peaceful environment.
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Durin's Bane
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quote:
Tolkien later stated Treebeard was mistaken... Though I don't have the HoMe letter to back that up!
What exactly is the HoMe letter? I would like to know.

Thanks

[ 02-10-2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Durin's Bane ]

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Pour me somthing tall and strong, make it a hurricane before I go insane. It's only half past twelve, but I don't care, it's five-o-clock somewhere.

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Halion
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I believe theWhiteLady is talking about the book The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. Here is some more information: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618056998/

[ 05-06-2007, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Halion ]

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Queen Varda
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It had been many an age since Treebeard had seen any of the Entwives.
Middle Earth had changed much since then, the Northern lands wiped out and great fires destroying huge forests.

I agree with Ecthelion of the Fountain, they are gone and Tolkien just didn't want to say it in plain words so as not to close the door completely on that subject. It would be too sad if Treebeard knew the Entwives were dead.

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Ea
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Personally I believe that during the Last Alliance the entwives were captured and brought to Mordor. In Mordor their fate was similar to the elves Melkor captured. After years of torture they were eventually corrupted and mutated into some horrid form. Knowing Sauron he likely forced them to breed with trolls making some kind of super breed. ( maybe olog-hai)
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Pilgrim
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Chronologically speaking, if the age of an Entwife is comparable to the age of her Ent Hombres, this might suggest that at least one would be around during the third age. However, their complete lack of participation in the plot is likely to situate them in a different region of M.E. than the part of it than where the war of the ring is taking place. If they were even half as brawny as their male companions why didn't Sauron use them at the siege of the white city?

If they are anything like the Ents, they probably would not survive in Wilderland without nourishment from the enchanted pools of Fangorn. The laws of migration, even in a fictional setting, would suggest that they journeyed west or north from Fangorn to find places where there were large quantities of other trees to tend/speak/play cards with.

[ 03-27-2013, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim ]

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