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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » What was the Secret Fire that Gandalf said in Moria that he served? (Page 1)
Author Topic: What was the Secret Fire that Gandalf said in Moria that he served?
White Gold Wielder
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Here's one that I never thought about through my first few readings, and afterward I thought I had the right answer but I was wrong.

What was the Secret Fire that Gandalf said in Moria that he served?

The real answer to this should be a history lesson to all those who haven't read the Silmarillion yet!


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Iarwain
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I've read the Sil and I could be wrong, in fact most probably wrong, but I thought it refered to the elven ring he wore since after all it was the ring of fire.
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Miturian
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Nope, I think it is something in the undying lands, something of the Vala, don't know what, cause I have only read the Silm ones, and that's some time ago.
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Galdor of the Tree
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could the secret fire refer to Flame Imperishable that was made by Eru and Morgoth tried to capture and keep for himself but it was kept in the center of Eä or something like that
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Crap, you got to it first.

This message has been edited by Fingolfin of the Noldor on 03-06-2001 at


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Roll of Honor Dernhelm
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I think mog is on the right track. The "secret fire" of which Gandalf speaks is the Flame Imperishable that is within the mind of Illuvatar.
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Mithrandir
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yep, thats it, and he could use it because of his ring.
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Roll of Honor Nenya
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I do not think that the ring gave him this power. I think he knew how to use the fire before he got the ring, as he is a maia. And as we said in some other thread, the rings didn't get their names from their power but was named after the silmarills.
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Miturian
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Could anyone tell me where exactly in moria he says it?
Cause I don't think have ever noticed it.

------------------
If you haven't been at the buttom,
and climbed all the way op,
then you don't know what you're standing on.


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Roll of Honor Dernhelm
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Gandalf declares it as he's holding the bridge against the Balrog.


quote:

"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass."


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Miturian
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Thanks
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Iarwain
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How is Gandalf able to use this secret flame then?
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White Gold Wielder
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He doesn't USE the secret flame. He SERVES it.
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The Laurenendôrian
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But he is a 'wielder of the Flame of Anor'
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Anor means Sun-, doesn't it?
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Miturian
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Yup it does, good view, always just thought of it as Minas Anor.

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Carnefin
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I read somewhere it alludes to the Sun as a symbol of the Secret Fire
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Carnefin
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It also says in the frist Chapter of LotR that Gandalf's fame in the Shire was mainly to his skill with fire, smokes and lights.
Then when he lights the fire in the snow storm says himself;
"I have written Gandalf is here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to the mouths of Anduin."
Perhaps he was alluding to his own special talent for fire magic?

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Mithrandir
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thats not really alluding, thats pointing out his power. he had Narya, the red ring, which I personally believe enhanced his fire power, if you will
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Earendilyon
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I think, Gandalf meant, that everybody who knew anything about the use of wizzardy power would notice his "magic".
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Miturian
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He had written Gandalf because no one other could have done it, Saruman could, but he was in Isengard for sure. And all others who could too did also have an alibi(forgot how to spell it)
Gandalfs ring wsa to get frienships with, at least when Cirdan surrendred his ring to Gandalf he Said:
"Tak this ring, master, master", he said, "for your labour will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that yuo taknen upon yourself. For this is The Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Dea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship saila. I will await you"

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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Gandalf was not a servant of Narya nor was he a servant of his skill but he was a servant of Eru and the Valar who were created with the imperishiable flame.
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Bungo
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But what exactly does the Flame Imperishable represent? Anyone know?

Is it just the natural fire at the centre of the Earth, and if so, why would Melkor care about it in the least? Or if it is something in the mind of Iluvatar, then what could that be; how could Melkor even dream of getting at it; and what is Gandalf saying when he says he serves it?

------------------
Eldameldor! A laita, laita te!


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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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The flame imperishiable is something we could never hope understand. It is an enigma, a paradox, a conundrum, a mystery.
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White Gold Wielder
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The Flame Imperishable is life.

It's the undying cycle of life in the world. It's that thing that lives and grows and spreads like fire. It's kinetic energy, chemical reactions, and laws of nature. It's everything about the world that makes life an inevitable fact of the universe.

Chaos. Order. Life.

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