Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
  This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Did the Nazgul wear their rings? (Page 2)
Author Topic: Did the Nazgul wear their rings?
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
yea your probably right, how would sauron be able to control them with out their rings. That HoME quote of mine is probably just another inconsistency between the drafts.

This message has been edited by Fingolfin of the Noldor on 03-28-2001 at


From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mithrandir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 292
posted      Profile for Mithrandir   Author's Homepage   Email Mithrandir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
exactly, when he had the ring, he could let them have their rings and he could still draw them in. without it, he was powerless over them, unless he held their rings. i think this topic is winding down.
From: Valinor | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 371
posted      Profile for cian   Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a few more quotes, from UT (first two) and FotR.

"They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held;..."

"... who had no will but his own, being each utterly subservient to the ring that enslaved him, which Sauron held."

"You saw the eye of him who holds the Seven and the Nine."

"So it is now: the Nine he has gathered to himself; the Seven also, ..."

Cheers~


Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aerendir
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 240
posted      Profile for Aerendir   Email Aerendir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Goodness! I don' think that we have settled anything yet. But perhaps we have. I'm of the persuasion that Sauron held the nine rings during the War of the Ring. But how they were enslaved was by corrupting them through the rings, which obviously they had to wear at one time. (As a side note on the powers of the Nine rings- The Nine were said to be Numenoreans, or at least a majority of them were, so the domination of ME in the Akallabeth can be attributed to the powers of the rings)
There are several questionable passages in Tolkiens works that may imply that the Nine wore their rings, but Logic I think sways the student the other way. I submit the evidence of the Three rings. The powers of the Three could not be used for good while the One was held, but as soon as the One was lost, the Bearers of the Three were free to do whatever they wanted with their powers. Had the Nine actually held their rings, They also would be free of the ruling of Sauron, UNLESS he still held their rings.

Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mithrandir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 292
posted      Profile for Mithrandir   Author's Homepage   Email Mithrandir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
exactly, thats the point we reached. of course they had to wear their rings when they were mortals, and possibly even afterwards, but not in the 3rd age
From: Valinor | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galdor of the Tree
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 260
posted      Profile for Galdor of the Tree   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well they obviously had to worn them for quite a while if they were to become wraiths from them.
From: New Haven, CT | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
Captain of Avatars
Citizen # 156

posted      Profile for Fingolfin of the Noldor   Author's Homepage   Email Fingolfin of the Noldor   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
that was just stated
From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shadow Gale
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 505
posted      Profile for Shadow Gale   Email Shadow Gale   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
This is copied from http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/tolkien.htm, which is The Scrolls of Orthanc

Did the Nazgul Wear Their Own Rings or Did Sauron Hold Them?
This is a hotly debated issue. Some believe that the Nazgul kept their own rings and were enslaved and controlled by Sauron through their rings. This side also believes that the Nazgul derived their power as Ringwraiths by wearing their own rings. The only clear statement for this stand is during the Council of Elrond where Gandalf states that "The Nine the Nazgul keep." [17] There are faults with this position; 1)why was there no ring left on the ground after the Witch-king was defeated by Eowyn and Merry, whereas Sauron's Ring was left for the taking by Isildur when defeated by Gil-galad and Elendil, and 2)why didn't Frodo, as Ring Bearer, see the rings on the Ringwraiths on Weathertop and at the Ford of Bruinen when he saw their swords, pale faces, their eyes, and their crowns? Compare this to the fact that while in Lothlorien he was able to see Galadriel's ring, Nenya, upon her finger when Sam could not.
Most of the evidence points to the opinion that Sauron himself held the rings. Gandalf explains the history of the Rings to Frodo at Bag End and tells him that:


"So it is now; the Nine he had gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed. The Three are hidden still." [18]
This statement is clearly in context with rings and not wills as mention of the Seven is made. We know of no wraiths or slaves that wear the remaining Seven. Therefore, gathering the Nine and Seven to himself means just that - Sauron has the Nine and remaining Seven Rings in his physical possession.

Galadriel also confirms this by telling Frodo while in Lothlorien:


"You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine." [19]
Then we have the following accounts from The Hunt for the Ring in Unfinished Tales:


"At length he(Sauron) resolved that no others would serve him in this case but his mightiest servants, the Ringwraiths, who had no will but his own, being utterly subservient to the ring that had enslaved him, which Sauron held."

"They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held..."[20]
These statements clearly show that it was Sauron who held the rings and so controlled the Nazgul.

The most definitive statement comes from one of his letters describing the situation of Frodo at the Cracks of Doom and is extremely informative concerning the nature of One Ring:


"Sauron sent at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring...But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Rings's subsidiary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination? Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor command of his that did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings(which he held) had primary control of their wills..." [21]
It would appear from the above body of evidence that when Sauron first claimed the Nine he then gave the Nine Rings to Mortal Men who used the power of their rings for dominance and control. In the end, they faded and became Wraiths - at which point Sauron took their rings back to hold and so control his most feared servants.

------------------
When winter first begins to bite
And stones crack in the frosty night,
When pools are black and trees are bare,
'tis evil in the Wild to fare.

This message has been edited by Shadow Gale on 05-03-2001 at


Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gil-galad
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 576

posted      Profile for Gil-galad   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I think that the ringwraiths still wore their rings. Because they had obeyed sauron so long, they could not get away from his power, even when he lost the one ring. But when he did lose the one ring their powers lessened.
From: TX | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sepiroth Strife
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2646

posted      Profile for Sepiroth Strife   Email Sepiroth Strife   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
When The Black Captain was killed there was nothing left, but the mantle and the hauberk. If he were wearing his ring, should it not have been on the ground where he died? For this reason I submit that he was not wearing his ring and therefore neither were the other eight nazgul.
One nazgul wasn't wearing his ring (or at least it wasn’t found afterwards), albeit the "King", so none of the others could be wearing their rings? Somehow that seems...flawed.

And this debate is centered on how you define "held". Defined as physically holding then Sauron had the rings in his possession. Defined as "had power over" then nothing at all is proven within the quotes everyone clings to.

[ 02-05-2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Sepiroth Strife ]

From: Temple, Texas | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cian
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 371
posted      Profile for cian   Edit/Delete Post 
Sepiroth Strife posted: "And this debate is centered on how you define "held". Defined as physically holding then Sauron had the rings in his possession. Defined as "had power over" then nothing at all is proven within the quotes everyone clings to."

Plug the meaning 'held sway over' or 'had power over' into the following quote, for example:

'They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held; ..." ~JRRT

Note '... which he now himself held' -- Sauron now himself had power over the Nine Rings? or now himself held them in possession?

Letters:

... their errand -- laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings had primary control of their wills.

So Sauron had primary control of the Nazgûl through their rings, basically he 'had power over' them through their Rings ... but that is not the actual quote however ... the actual quote includes a brief parenthetical digression:

' ... their errand -- laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills.' ~JRRT

Tolkien seems to feel the need, here, to add that Sauron 'held' the Nine Rings.

¤

Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thalion
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4172
posted      Profile for Thalion   Email Thalion   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Just for Clarities sake, I am posting the entire qoute from Nimruzirs Letter which makes it clear he is actually taking about the Nazgul at Mt. Doom.
quote:
I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt - saving help from outside, which was hardly even remotely possible.

From: Hiding in a Filing Cabinet | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Arnkell
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3864

posted      Profile for Arnkell   Email Arnkell   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I've thought of another detail that disputes the claim that Sauron physically kept the nine rings: the seven dwarven rings can't be in his actual possession, as Galadriel said, because at least three of the dwarven rings were consumed by dragon-fire, were they not?

If Sauron "holds" the seven dwarf rings together with the nine human rings, despite the fact that three have been previously destroyed, it can only mean that Sauron's "holding" them only means he controls their destiny now.

From: Sueonia, Land of strife | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Elendil of Numenor
Soldier of Gondor
Citizen # 4491
posted      Profile for Elendil of Numenor   Email Elendil of Numenor   Edit/Delete Post 
But however, remember the story Gandalf tells in The Hobbit about him going to Dol Guldur and seeing Thorin the Dwarf there? Sauron captured him to physically take the ring from the dwarf. So when it says he held the seven, it basically means that they were either in his possession (the ones still intact) or no ones's possession (the ones destroyed). In any case, I think that Sauron physically held the remaining Seven and all of the Nine.
Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Arnkell
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3864

posted      Profile for Arnkell   Email Arnkell   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
"So when it says he held the seven, it basically means that they were either in his possession (the ones still intact) or no ones's possession (the ones destroyed). // In any case, I think that Sauron physically held the remaining Seven and all of the Nine."

No, Sauron only collected three dwarven rings, the other four were destroyed by dragons.

This quote from "The Council of Elrond" supports it, when Glóin tells of a Messenger from Mordor that sought The One Ring;

"And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt. "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time."
'At this we were greatly troubled, and we gave no answer. And then his fell voice was lowered, and he would have sweetened it if he could. "As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this," he said: "that you should find this thief," such was his word, "and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever."


Obviously, Sauron only had three Dwarven rings to give, there is no logic in him giving away as few as three and keeping four.
He really wanted the dwarves' cooperation and would've offered the Seven if he'd had them, hoping the dwarves still had their greed left.

From: Sueonia, Land of strife | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Snöwdog
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 15

posted      Profile for Snöwdog   Author's Homepage   Email Snöwdog   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"Some, Galdor,' said Gandalf, `would think the tidings of Glóin, and the pursuit of Frodo, proof enough that the halfling's trove is a thing of great worth to the Enemy. Yet it is a ring. What then? The Nine the Nazgûl keep. The Seven are taken or destroyed.' At this Glóin stirred, but did not speak. `The Three we know of. What then is this one that he desires so much?"
FotR - Chapter 2. The Council of Elrond (canon)

quote:
"And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt. "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time."
'At this we were greatly troubled, and we gave no answer. And then his fell voice was lowered, and he would have sweetened it if he could. "As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this," he said: "that you should find this thief," such was his word, "and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever."


Add to this the fact Gandalf had on of the Three, yet it wasn't perceived by Saruman when Gandalf was imprisoned in Orthanc, makes the rings a most interesting topic of discussion!
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aiwrendel
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 965

posted      Profile for Aiwrendel   Author's Homepage   Email Aiwrendel   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Gandalf had one of the Three, yet it wasn't perceived by Saruman when Gandalf was imprisoned in Orthanc
Maybe only ring bearers can detect other ring bearers. Frodo saw Galadriel’s ring but Sam didn’t and Gandalf saw Saruman’s ring. But Saruman’s ring probably wasn’t a proper ring of power. I can imagine Sauron helping in its making and purposely withholding some information like jealously leaving out an ingredient in a pie recipe. Or Saruman alone made the ring and didn’t have enough information to make it to the others’ standards.
From: Chicago USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held
Sauron was one of the creators of the Nine Rings, so he could easily enslave the Nine Ringbearers without phisically holding the Rings.

IMO the Nazgul wore their Rings.

quote:
The Nine the Nazgûl keep.
Gandalf's "job" is to find out as much as possible about the Enemy, so also about the Nazgul. If we assume that the Ringbearers see the Rings of other Ringbearers, then Gandalf is likely to know whether tne Nazgul wear their Rings. He says they do.
I know that there is no mention of Frodo seeing the Nazguls' Rings on Weathertop, but I suppose he is so terryfied that he doesn't look at such details as rings.

[]
There's also another aspect, and I was surprised not to see anything about it in this thread:
Those who were robbed of a Ring of Power (I mean robbed of, not those who gave one up voluntarily)
There are four of them (unless there's someone I don't know/remember about):
1) Frodo in Mount Doom
2) Gollum
3) Sauron
4) Thrain in Dol Guldur
Frodo doesn't have much time to do anything and he is wounded, so let's leave him out.
Gollum and Sauron both do everything they can to get the Ring back.
On Thrain, who has no chance to get the Ring back, the loss of it has such a great effect that he doesn't even remember his own name. He just gives Gandalf the map and the key.
And the Nazgul just serve Sauron, they're neither desperate to do anything nor feel 100% defeated. So I'd say that nobody took their Rings away from them.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
We wants it...
We needs it...
We mussst get the preciousss...

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aiwrendel
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 965

posted      Profile for Aiwrendel   Author's Homepage   Email Aiwrendel   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry I have mostly questions at this time. I think the Nazgul possessed the rings at the end of the Second Age and kept them as Sauron grew in power and form during the Third Age.

If Sauron physically had the Nine rings when did he take them from the Nazgul? It seems likely it was before being overthrown by Elendil and Gil-galad at the end of the Second Age. Or could he “hold” onto physical rings when he himself was diminished to a mere shadow without physical form?

So, when did he take them and when did the Nazgul have them?

From: Chicago USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
I believe after Sauron had taken physical form again, in the Third Age. He had lost the One, so he took back the Nine for extra insurance -- in that Sauron desired total domination to ensure that any of the Nine who recovered the One would deliver it to him.

'So it is now; the Nine he has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed. The Three are hidden still.'


Gandalf's statement [the Nine the Nazgul keep], is to me the odd statement in the collection, compared to various others which I think are easily in step with Sauron physically taking back the Nine.

[ 03-18-2014, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: Galin ]

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aiwrendel
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 965

posted      Profile for Aiwrendel   Author's Homepage   Email Aiwrendel   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Gandalf's statement [the Nine the Nazgul keep], is to me the odd statement in the collection, compared to various others which I think are easily in step with Sauron physically taking back the Nine.
Agreed!!!

If Sauron took back the nine rings in the Third Age then he must have had complete dominion over the Nazgul even when they possessed their rings. In that case he didn’t need their rings to control them.

There are possibilities in your idea that one of the Nine might be a threat if he possessed both his ring and the One but I think they were completely subservient to Sauron and would have brought the One to him if they had possession of it.

Maybe Sauron gathered all of the rings simply to have control of them. That is, so no one could use them. Simple greed: He didn’t need their power but wanted to assure no one else had their power. An example already mentioned is one of the Nazgul being defeated and his ring taken by the victor. After all, that already happened to him.

*Cut to Sauron whining, “If I can’t use them then no one can! Nyah!”*

From: Chicago USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There are possibilities in your idea that one of the Nine might be a threat if he possessed both his ring and the One but I think they were completely subservient to Sauron
You're right. Someone says it in LotR, though I don't remember who exactly. Gandalf perhaps?

quote:
In that case he didn’t need their rings to control them.
I think he didn't, as he was one (the most powerful one!) of the creators of the Nine Rings.

quote:
'So it is now; the Nine he has gathered to himself; the Seven also, or else they are destroyed.
I'd interpret it in this way: he gathered the power of those Rings, but not necessarily the Rings themselves. Do you really think he'd wear all of them? []

quote:
one of the Nazgul being defeated and his ring taken by the victor.
two issues here:
1) the Nazgul weren't (usually...) used to combat, but rather to frighten people so that they can't fight. So it seems kind of unlikely (though not impossible) that a Nazgul would be defeated, especially that not many people were strong enough to fight with them. Also... if you were some great hero and slayed a Nazgul, would you ever think of looking for his Ring? And what's more, after being defeated, the Nazgul turn into nothingness, so you wouldn't have much time to search them []
2) but if anyone did take a Nazgul's Ring, he would just become another Nazgul after some time... and serve Sauron. So Sauron wouldn't mind it that much, I think []

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I'd interpret it in this way: he gathered the power of those Rings, but not necessarily the Rings themselves. Do you really think he'd wear all of them?
Well Sauron has nine fingers. In any case I think your interpretation is a bit strained: Sauron gathered the 'power' of the rings, but not the actual rings? He gathered the 'power' of the Seven?

Plus, how do you explain this description from Tolkien [someone brought this up before], which refers to the mission of the Nine being sent to find the One, and deliver it up to Sauron of course:


'They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held; ...'

If 'held' here meant 'held under sway' and not possession, who else, and when, held the Nine Rings 'under sway'?

It's possession in my opinion.

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gollum Gollum
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 11392

posted      Profile for Gollum Gollum   Email Gollum Gollum   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Sauron gathered the 'power' of the rings, but not the actual rings? He gathered the 'power' of the Seven?
This brings us to a fundamental question: what does power mean. Do we actually know how works this "something" that Sam would call magic? (Now you'll probably quote HoME or something and everything will become clear.) Do we know how the Rings were exactly created? They were "forged", but how does the power dwelling in them work? How did both Sauron and the Elves place some part of their "power" (whatever power means) in the Rings? I believe that there's no easy answer to these questions.

But I assume that if Sauron could give power to the Rings/to the people wearing the Rings, he could also take it away from them. And if such a Ring robs its bearer of humanity, then Sauron, controlling this Ring, can simply rob the bearer of his free will. (A simmilar thing with the One Ring and Gollum, who often acts against his own will.)

quote:
who else, and when, held the Nine Rings 'under sway'?
Hmm, good question. I never thought about this before. The answer seems to be: the Nazgul (because I think there is no other possibility). When? First, when they were still "normal" men - though Sauron influenced them through the Rings, they still had their own will. And then (perhaps) when Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second Age.
"which he now himself held" I understand as: he was the only one who could use them, he didn't allow the Nine Ringbearers to make any decisions by themselves.

E:typo

[ 03-18-2014, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Gollum Gollum ]

From: Cave in the Misty Mountains | Registered: May 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Galin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4975
posted      Profile for Galin   Edit/Delete Post 
The much easier answer for me is that Sauron held them, as in physically possessing them: Sauron now himself held the Nine Rings, as before the Nine held them, physically.

The Nine Men formerly holding their Rings 'under sway' seems very odd thing to say in my opinion, as they physically wore them and were under sway of Sauron through the One.

Of course while I think another interpretation here is strained, admittedly, any interpretation I can think of with respect to Gandalf's 'the Nine the Nazgul keep' isn't very good either -- to be consonant with the idea the wizard 'must' mean only that the Nine Rings are accounted for, so Frodo's Ring can't be one of those, which is the point of Gandalf's accounting here if I recall correctly. And there's no great reason to digress about Sauron taking them back, as that is basically not pertinent to his point...

... as I say, not the best interpretation either; but then what I look at is this one quote versus various others, with the various others easily interpreted [again for me] as Sauron taking the Nine Rings back, mixed with the idea of even greater control, due to lack of the One...

... and so that's why I end up with my opinion that Sauron had them. The wraiths were already permanently invisible by this time, and yes, arguably already dominated by Sauron's will in any case...

... but this was insurance for a special purpose: not just locate the One, but take it and bring it to Sauron.

Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Did the Nazgul wear their rings? (Page 2)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1