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Minas Tirith Forums » Library Council of Minas Tirith » Why didn't Eagles just fly the Ring to Mt. Doom? (Page 1)
Author Topic: Why didn't Eagles just fly the Ring to Mt. Doom?
White Gold Wielder
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For our second topic, I chose something a little less sticky than our first question.

Why didn't the Eagles just fly the Ring to Mt. Doom?

I'd be surprised if everyone hasn't wondered this at one time or another. There are actually a few layers to this one, but I'll let someone else make the opening statement.


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Warg
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It seems to me that it is impossible to find any facts pertaining to this question. All i can say is that Eagles were possibly the greatest creatures on ME. Would they not, also be tempted to use the ring for their own deeds? Remember, Hobbits are slow to be couragus, but they have quite possibly the strongest will power in all of ME other than the characters like Tom, and such. Even Saruman the white was tempted by the ring.

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Hwæt we Gar-Dena in gear-dagum
peod-cyninga prym gefrunon,
hu oa æpelingas ellen fremedon.


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gram
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It has been argued that the reason the eagles did not fly the Ring to Mt. Doom and drop it in the Crack is because they were not allowed to directly interfere with the destruction of the Ring and Sauron. Flying wizards around or attacking the Enemy's army did not count ("We did not have any flying relationship with that wizard").

It has also been argued that the nazgul with their flying steeds would have posed too much of a threat to the eagles.

I think that it would have made too short of a story.

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""Oh, it's the meek! Blessed are the meek! Oh, that's nice, isn't it?
I'm glad they're getting something, 'cause they have a hell of a time."


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Galdor of the Tree
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if you ask me the reason is obvious it doesn't much of a story or they didn't think of that
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Bungo
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I agree with most of the above.

a) Stealth was needed when the ring left Rivendell, (or else they would have crossed the Misty Mountains using the same path used in 'The Hobbit') and giant eagles are not exactly inconspicuous. And having already been annoyed by eagles indirectly during the First Age, Sauron should have had his best archers on the highest lookouts around the clock. Not because he would be expecting rash eagle attacks, but just for the satisfaction of shooting down anything good that moved in the sky and could be spying.

b) Eagles seem to have been intended by Yavanna (sp?) to function only as a last resort, which is why they come to people's rescue rather than make up part of the forward line.

c) It would have made for a very short and dull story.

I definitely don't think they would have had any interest in the ring themselves.

p.s. White Gold Wielder, your user name rocks. Stephen R. Donaldson's deeply moving books are the finest achievements since LOTR and almost seem sometimes like a tribute to the work of JRR.


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Edain the Ranger
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Sorry but I don't this is a really good topic, but it is definitely less speculative that the Balrog one! I must admit that the idea of using the eagles initially looks too easy. I reckon that is part of the reason that Sauron gave the Ringwraiths flying beasties in the first place. We needn’t venture into the other reasons on this topic!

Back to the Eagles, the other reasons I see are that they are equivalent of emergency services. Used at the last resort. You don’t see firemen in the movies saving the world from nuclear war! Isn’t it a really long way from Imladris to Ororudin? I know that the Eagles managed to carry Gandalf and hobbits about, but surely to expect them to carry the rings all the way non-stop is a bit much.

I think that the main reason is the risk. The eagles would have been too obvious, and would have been taken down one way or the other; Nazgûl, Archers, magic winds, will of Sauron, etc. Then the peoples of the west would have been either enslaved or there be a situation similar to where Isildur lost the ring.

My final reason is that IMO Tolkien would never have considered using the Eagles. Its just too easy, and if he had how would he have been able to introduce all the peoples and places in Middle Earth to us?
Imagine the story, an eagle eye view of ME,

Eagle 1: Swark! Swark! Oh look that’s Rohan down there.

Eagle 2 (The Ringbearer): Yes isn’t it pretty?

Eagle 1: S*** now you’ve gone and dropped it!

This message has been edited by Edain the Ranger on 03-02-2001 at


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White Gold Wielder
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Well, other than typing in Tolkien's Letters on the subject, all the reasons have been hit upon.

Just wanted to give you guys a feeling of accomplishment! Woohoo! 1 done!

Seriously, a lot of new readers get hung up on this. With 'story' reasons and 'real-life' reasons, they can get past this issue.

If anyone has any quotes from Tolkien on the matter, it would save me typing them in! Otherwise, this issue is fairly complete. Feel free to add any other bits and pieces as you find them!


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Mithrandir
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i think possibly the main reason was that the Eagles had no need to take it....they, like Tom Bombaldil had no concern for it. Also, Hobbits had incredible resistance to it, and even in the end, could not throw it in the Crack of Doom, so how therefore could an Eagle get rid of it?
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Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
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Well, even active volcanos don't necessarily have molten lava floating around in the middle of them. It would be dangerous for an eagle to fly over the heat and fumes.

Sam and Frodo actually went into a chamber below the top of the volcano to access the Crack of Doom. The Eagles may not have fit into the narrow area, and would have had to fly them to the bottom of the mountain anyway, there being little area to land in.


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Roland
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Well, I don't think the Eagles would have even wanted to give their services as transportation. Just imagine if word got out to everyone in Middle Earth of being transported by air with help of the eagles =)
Everyone would be hunting down those eagles and begging for rides =). Plus I'm not so sure the eagles had the stamina to make such a long journey (even if they were willing, which I doubt) carrying a load of passengers into Mordor, land of danger. Besides, Sauron was powerful enough to stop them.

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Siggles
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http://www.minastirith.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000488
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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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Siggles, this thread was posted about 8 months before the thread in Lord of the Rings...
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Orome
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ive brought this up before and i still think it is a fairly plausible way to get the ring to mt. doom. certainly it all of the reasons stated above were plenty of cause for why they might not have tried it.
it seems to me though that sauron and co. had all their attention on one place and had the eagles flown a circle about mordor and come at mt doom from the east there would have been a good chance of success. certainly better than frodo and sam had.
it is of course always possible that gandalf always had them in the back of his mind and never had a chance to get the ring anywhere near the eagles because of time constrictions and the fracturing of the fellowship.
and yes it would have made for a dull story.
of course.... if the eagles were shot down in the easternlands and the fellowship had to battle hordes of enemies it may still have had some kick

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_ _ _
Orome

"The strongest hand uppermost!" Brian Boru, Lion of Ireland.

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enatae
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edain the ranger metioned something interesting:
magic winds!
we know that sauron had the power to influence the weather, so why shouldn't he have created winds protecting his realm from flying enemies.

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ASH NAZG DURBATULUK
ASH NAZG GIMBATUL
ASH NAZG THRAKATULUK
AGH BURZUM-ISHI KRIMPATULM

Min Côr bauglo hain phain, min Côr chebo hain
Min Côr togo hain phain, ned duir gwedho hain

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Orome
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i suppose it was possible but i think it would have been rather time consuming and he had his attention focused in one place as i stated before

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_ _ _
Orome

"The strongest hand uppermost!" Brian Boru, Lion of Ireland.

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Aiwrendel
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The Council of Elrond seemed to stress stealth as the most important ingredient in the success of destroying the One. One example is Elrond's statement,

"The number must be few, since your hope is in speed and secrecy. Had I a host of Elves in armour of the Elder Days, it would avail little, save to arouse the power of Mordor."

I think a giant Eagle swooping down into Mordor would catch too much attention.


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Gandalf Greyhame
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I believe the reason is just that eagles flying the ring over wouldn't have made much of a story. Seems the most likely thing to me!
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Hidalgo
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There are many reasons why the Eagles didn't fly the Ring to Mt Doom: 1-The Ring is suly to little for their claws. 2-Sauron would have noticed them, and would have sent all his might against them. 3-Would you trust them?, at least we knew that Frodo couldn't use all the power the Ring had, so even if the Ring was too much for him he would have just turned into another Gollum.
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Roll of Honor Kosomot
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All they would have needed to do was to ask Radagast hypnotize a little bird and command it to make a kamikaze flight into the volcano.
Ta-dah! Problem solved!

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Graham is an idiot
he is an idiot
the smiley face resembles him
when he pulls down his pants everybody in the 500 mile range dies
everyone fears it

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Eol the Dark Elf
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This is kind of a branch off, of grams post:

quote:
It has been argued that the reason the eagles did not fly...to Mt. Doom...is because they were not allowed to directly interfere with the destruction of the Ring and Sauron.

If the eagles were Maiar (I think there is/was topic on this) they may not have been allowed to interfere directly, similar to the Istari being forbidden to do so.


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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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That's my beleif Eöl - but somehow I think there is a lot more to it then that. Istari were not allowed to interfere directly yes but IMHO both Gandalf and Sauruman interefered. So if Istari can break the rules, why not Eagles?
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Narwen
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Because the Istari were specifically sent to "interfere" as their mission.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Nârwen of the House of Fëanor

Ind ped an ind
"Say this to Manwe Sulimo,High King of Arda:if Fëanor cannot overthrow Morgoth,at least he delays not to assail him,and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest.Such hurt at the least will I do to the Foe of the Valar that even the Mighty in the Ring of Doom shall wonder to hear it.Yea,in the end they shall follow me.Farewell!"

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Witch King of Angmar7
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There wouldn't be a story then. Also Arrows! Then an orc would get it and take it to Sauron.
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Eol the Dark Elf
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If the eagles were Maiar is it possible that they had a stronger link with the west, not necessarily because they flew back and forth to get information and such daily, but that perhaps occasionally they sent messengers / message receivers to the West?* So they could have had constant reminders of their limits.

For example the single time GtG returned he was changed 'and remembered what he had forgotten' etc. though doubtful this is all he remembered (!), he may have been reminded of his cause and his constraints or had them 'renwed' (or perhaps changed?) so if the Eagles were constantly(ish) flying to and fro from the West then they could have this same effect that GtG had, except all the time.

*Okay I know Manwë and Varda were all but omniscient, but they could have missed the 'smaller' things?

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Eöl the Dark Elf ]


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Roll of Honor TheGentleman
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Narwen - I'd have to disagree: the Istari were sent to 'encourage' the enemies of Sauron. This task was perverted by Saruman. What I'm saying is it isn't as cut and dry as 'the eagles were not allowed to interfere. So if Saruman (a maiar) has his own free will and can go against his purpose, I think the eagles could have done so too.
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