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Minas Tirith Forums » The Ivy Bush » Are you from the movie or book generation? (Page 8)
Author Topic: Are you from the movie or book generation?
The Witch-King of Angmar
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quote:
I've always thought that late Peter Cushing would have been a perfect Denethor.
I don't see the resemblance to description:

"'Denethor II was a proud man, tall, valiant, and more kingly than any man that had appeared in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore. Indeed he was as like to Thorongil [Aragorn] as to one of nearest kin, and yet was ever placed second to the stranger in the hearts of men and the esteem of his father.....
Denethor looked indeed much more like a great wizard than Gandalf did, more kingly, beautiful, and powerful; and older."

I think this should go to Charlton Heston:

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"He stood up and cast open his long black cloak, and behold! he was clad in mail beneath, and girt with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. ‘Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept,’ he said, ‘lest with age the body should grow soft and timid.’"

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As for Peter Cushing, I saw him as more fit for another part:


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"The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’ But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again [67 years earlier], and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc."

[ 07-30-2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Incanus
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I agree on Peter Crushing. I can't tell what about him, but the way he looks is perfect for the Mouth of Sauron.

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Incanus
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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The same thing that made him perfect as General Tarkin-- the look of a fierce, ruthlessly cruel intelligence and British military efficiency, combined with the smugness of a powerful officer for an evil ruler-- someone you can take seriously as both evil and dangerous, and not just a "bad guy" waiting to get taken out. If he showed me the mail-shirt, I'd believe it was all over-- even Gandalf was fooled, and faced the MoS as a "deadly foe."
This was also why Cushing was good as Sherlock Holmes, since you knew this was no dunce.

What do you think about Heston as Denethor? I think he'd be great in order to give the part the honor it deserves, and not portray him as a high fool like others did (not just PJ, but also Rankin-Bass-- so he wasn't alone-- in fact many, being used to standard pulp-literature, make the mistake of seeing Denethor as a classic idiot rather than a tragic hero).

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Hidalgo
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I agree that Heston (old Heston, not when he was young) yould be a good Denethor. He has the charisma and the authority.

Yet i still maintain that Cushing wuld have made a great Denethor. Not a lovable Denethor, a stern and hard. Certainly not the mad fool from Jackson's film. [] I can picture Cushing sending the sons he adores to the most dangerous missions, or battling with Sauron in the Palantir. Yes, the man who maintained the horrors of Morgul at bay by the force of his will and his meagre armies.

As for the Mouth of Sauron... no, he was to coward and too mocking to be a proper role for Cushing. If you insist in an evil part... how about the Witch King in Amon Sûl, when Frodo puts the Ring in his finger and sees him?

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LyraLuthien Tinuviel
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You all have taken this thread off-topic. I believe this is frowned on in the Ivy Bush. Would it not be proper to take the current line of discussion to this Thread?
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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Just to follow-up: to portray Denethor as stern and hard" would be too much of a flattening charicature; he shows great kindness to Pippin, and seems both surprised and softened by Pippin's strength and innocence.
Likewise, the Witch-king was more rash and powerful, while Cushing gave the appearance of being more ruthlessly crafty and calculating-- I really think he would have captured the Ring long before Weathertop, since he would have focused more on making deals with the locals and travellers-- though backed by fear-- than simply scaring the heck out of them and making clumsy bribe-attempts as they did with Maggot and Harry Goatleaf; he did similar work at Erebor, making crude threats rather than more tactful and Sauron-like wordcraft.

For this reason, he'd make a perfect MoS, since after all this was the Mouth's job, and he proved very efficient at this, in securing the alliances of all the men of the world against Gondor and Rohan.
However, I don't think he'd make a good Saruman, who people saw as wise rather than threatening, and so they followed him out of good faith rather than fear.

Again, the MoS was very similar to Gen. Tarkin; both served in high esteem under a dark ruler; however there was nothing cowardly about the MoS, but he did clearly hold some remorse about being a traitor.

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Nifrodel
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I'm from the book generation and I love literature []

As the Chinese proverb said: "When I will read the new book, it is so if I found a new friend, and when I will read the book which already I read - it is so if I came together with the old friend".

TV stupefy people. Literature forces to the reflection []

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And only trees, since the world was born,
have bowed to those who walk against the wind...


Aiglos Tolkienistic Almanac

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Incanus
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Alright then.

Book generation. I read them all when I was in 4th grade, but I hadn't reread them until two years ago. I still haven't gotten around to rereading the Sil, though I'm hoping to do so soon, to brush up on everything. []

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Earion
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I might be a veteran at everything middle earth related, but unfortunatley I am form the movie gen, I loved them so much I decided to start reading the books! Read Simerilian, hobbit twice, and am on fellowship! javascript:void(x)
Smiley Code= []

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Roll of Honor Lassë
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Yeah, all those oldbies from the book generation might feel übercool, but the fact is that everyone got into Tolkine from some source or the other (recomendations from friends, parents, the animated movie, radioshows, etc) and the movies are as good a trigger as any. Why not ask people which tolkien-generation they are from in general? Or even simpler: what made you read Tolkien?
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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One of the girls in my class at secondary school (back when Tolkien was possibly still alive [] ) was reading LotR. Unfortunately it was only available in English then, and I didn't think I could face such a large chunk of English. I may even have been right about that. I remember her talking about Gandalf and about Strider - that's all.

But a couple of years later I came across it in Danish, and read it. I wasn't completely taken with it straight away, but I bought it in English a few years later, and it has been growing on me. I think what really got me enthusiastic, was discovering about the alphabets he had made, and how they show us Tolkien the phonetician.

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Eluchil
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Books generation.

I was +/- 17, if I remember correctly. I saw someone in a train reading LotR, and I became curious, so I bought the book. I quickly carried on with everything I could find in French at that time (The Hobbit, Sil, UT, HoMes I and II). I decided to read them in English 2-3 years before the movie, and was delighted when I realised I could do it. Then I discovered the 10 other HoMes during the movies period.

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Gollum Gollum
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Book generation [] , even though I read them when the films already existed (but I didn't know they did) [] .
This year I read HoME #1 and am currently trying to wade through #2, but "Turambar and the Foalókë" is really heavy going because I don't like the story []

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Roll of Honor The DarkQueen Iauraearien
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Book-gen. []
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Aiwrendel
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Book! Long before the movies.

I related to the second post in this thread because I did that very thing: Insisted a good friend read the books before seeing PJ's "interpretation". I'd already seen too many BAD "adaptations" to let her be contaminated.

My experiences with the animated versions of TH and LotR (after reading the books) compelled me to save at least one person from the certain hell of confusion that would accompany the PJ versions. She has told me she is eternally grateful.

[ 03-04-2014, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Aiwrendel ]

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Snöwdog
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This thread is a who's who of the great names that have graced the White City over the years.
My opinions expressed in my previous posts here still stand, and have been reinforced through the years.

From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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