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Minas Tirith Forums » The Ivy Bush » Who do you think was worst! Ugluk or Grishnak
Author Topic: Who do you think was worst! Ugluk or Grishnak
Gil-galad
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Let the best orc win!
From: TX | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Eoin MacDomhnaill
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No question about it, Grishnak wins. Ugluk was big, loud, and egocentric - the sort of evil which smacks of ignorance. His cruelty is rooted in his need to feel important. Grishnak was smooth, calm, and cunning - the evil sort who evokes true terror. He was cruel because he enjoyed it.
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Aragorn_croatia
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Therefore, I say Grishnak.
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Gil-galad
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Yeah, Grishnak was the type of orc who enjoyed evil for the pure fun of it. Therefore I will vote for Grisnak.
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Caranthir
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I'll say Ugluk, so I can look cool and rebellious.
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Gothmog35
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Forget cool and rebelious. Ugluk rocked! In my opinion Ugluk wins by far.He was dangerously confident without the reckless abandon that so often doomed orcs.
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LadyEowynKenobi
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Grishnak. he was the "traitor" wasnt he?

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"Nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him." ~Haldir

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Hidalgo
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Grishnak was the worst. As someone else said he was cunning, a sadist and a traitor.
Ugluk was the best: he was loyal, inteligent, and a true leader. In fact he's the only orc in Lotr I admire. And you can bet your shirt on this: if all his men (orcs) had been Uruk-hai, instead of Moria and Lugburz orcs, he would have done it.

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Arathorn II
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Defenitly Grishnak
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Cernunnos
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Uglúk showed some definite qualities of leadership; Grishnákh was a power-hungry sadist, driven by the lure of the Ring. Mr G is definitely the baddest Orc!

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Whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered.

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FarmerGiles
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Grishnakh, I suppose for the wicked Ring-coveting reasons cited by others. But this is sort of like asking "Which is more painful: a poke in the left eye or a poke in the right eye?"
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Eriol
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I'm putting my neck out by saying this, but I've always seen kind of a... *ahem*... Megatron/Starscream parallel with Ugluk/Grishnak. Maybe it's because I was around eleven when I first read the series, and Transformers was still going strong back then.

Using this twisted analogy as a basis, Ugluk must win because even a scheming wuss is still just a wuss.


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EnderAWiggin
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Grishnak of course.
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Roll of Honor Neytari Took-Baggins
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The orc I REALLY hate is the one who was whipping Frodo in RotK

But out of the choices givin I would say Grishnak for the reasons already cited.


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Roll of Honor Belegurth
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Grishnak is the worst, as said before, Ugluk really got his good sides, you can nearly feel that orcs are somehow of elven origin, and therefore Uruk-Hais ;-)
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Roll of Honor Gandalf the White
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I liked Ugluk better. Ugluk followed his orders, even though it meant fighting to do so. Grishnakh was just a greedy little pig
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Aldea
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Yes, denfinitely Grishnakh!
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Cassandra
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The statement was "let the bestorc win"! Ugluk was the best, he was a respectable leader, sometimes I think he would not even be tempted by the Ring (if it was there) and obey Saruman's commands.
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Roll of Honor Thorin
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I liked Ugluk better, but he certainly would have been tempted by the Ring. The Ring corrupted absolutely. Even Gandalf and Galadriel were tempted by it.
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Captain of Gondor
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Grisnak was worst. He was a coward. He wouldn't stand up to Ugluk if it was more then backbiting. He was a traitor. He wanted to follow orders, but, like any orc, he despised them and wanted the Ring.
Ugluk was better. He confronted the problem head on and would kill if need be. He took no crap from anybody. He was loyal to Saruman entirely and had more respect for his leaders then Grisnak did.

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Hamfast Gamgee
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I'm not einterely sure if I'm been a wishy-washy liberal here, of if Tolkien hinted it, but I have always felt sympathy for those Orcs, desperately searching for a way out of Rohan and of certain death.
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The Dread Pirate Roberts
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Grishnak was the worst. Definitely.

As for Hamfast's statement, you're not alone. I don't suppose Ugluk had any notion he and those with him were acting with anything other than loyalty to their ruler. They had no moral education other than it is right to obey orders and wrong to disobey.

I have often wondered whether there is any hope for orc-kind.

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The Witch-King of Angmar
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Ugluk seemed to show some loyalty, saying that "We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat. We came out of Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we choose. I am Uglúk. I have spoken.'"

But Grishnak was definitely worse in terms of his evil knowledge and orc-ruthlessness, being some sort of spy for Sauron himself. As the text wrote, "Sauron had few servants but many slaves of fear." I think that Men alone were loyal, but those loyal to Sauron were greedy for evil knowledge at any cost-- as Saruman plied Gandalf:

quote:
'We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means."
' "Saruman," I said, "I have heard speeches of this kind before, but only in the mouths of emissaries sent from Mordor to deceive the ignorant. I cannot think that you brought me so far only to weary my ears."

As such, Men were corrupted by subverting their primary inner values toward "higher" gains, but which inevitably masked their inner greed for power-- as in real life via Machiavellian pragmatism (which was the mainstay in Europe preceding WWI).

Orcs, meanwhile, like ruthless barbarians knew only love of cruelty and fear of cruelty, having no real choice in the matter-- and therefore having no hope for them. They had some primitive loyalty among their ranks, as the tracking-orc chides the other with "can't even stick by your own kind," but it's more tribal and selfish than representing any hint of real moral character.

quote:
I'm not einterely sure if I'm been a wishy-washy liberal here, of if Tolkien hinted it, but I have always felt sympathy for those Orcs, desperately searching for a way out of Rohan and of certain death.
As did Gandalf, saying of Sauron that "I pity even his slaves." Even Éomer gave Ugluk a chance to go free, dismounting and fighting him sword-to-sword himself rather than simply running him down with mass-spears; I believe that if Ugluk won, then he would have been allowed to go free by the other riders.

[ 01-10-2007, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: The Witch-King of Angmar ]

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Snöwdog
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Grishnak.
From: In the Shadows of Annuminas | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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