Minas Tirith Forums Create a New Topic  Create a New Poll  Reply to this Topic
profile | register |
search | faq | avatars | citizens
donate | about | library
  This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
Minas Tirith Forums » Minas Tirith Site Announcements » A Good Old-Fashioned Witch Banning (Page 1)
Author Topic: A Good Old-Fashioned Witch Banning
White Gold Wielder
Steward of Minas Tirith
Citizen # 2

posted      Profile for White Gold Wielder   Author's Homepage   Email White Gold Wielder   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Sarah the Good Witch is banned for the present. I have a feeling this will require a thread of its own, so here it is. You can read all about the last straw here: the hobbit and minas tirith

We can talk about it to all your heart's content, but let me say this. I knew that StGW would never apologize. Even to me. Even to save her own neck. Now, I didn't manufacture this incident, but I admit I was keeping my eye out for this opportunity.

And by opportunity, I mean for StGW to be forced to make a choice. Either submit to the rules of society, or declare herself openly to be outcast. Any person with a shred of humility and any desire to try to see another's point of view would have apologized.

And I gave her plenty of opportunity. She posted in like 40 threads while I was patiently awaiting her reply, as if desperate to continue as things were before and not get backed into a corner. When she did respond, it was with side-stepping and stone-walling. I didn't let her get out of the situation of her own creation. In the end, faced with hints of the repercussions, she decided to try to make this my fault. You would think someone so learned in Middle-earth would have taken Gandalf's advice about a king and his own hall.

Many of you who have known me a long time would admit that had she simply and sincerely said anything remotely like "didn't mean it, my bad" there would have been no banning. Until the end, I hoped that the fox cornered by the hounds would realize they wanted signs of her belonging in a community and not her pelt. I will miss her literary thoughts.

One final note. I believe any of you could have stood in my place. Those who were most irked by her would do well to study what happened here. If any of you had come to me with this thread and not let her get off on a technicality by getting yourselves muddy, I would have totally backed your valid claim for an apology. At no time did I really pull rank and claim she had to apologize because I was steward here. All of you deserve to be treated with common decency, and I knew she would never lower herself to be common.

Edit: Funny, I just read her edit near the bottom of page 1 of the source thread above. I don't think it would have made much difference, even if I had followed the chronology correctly. It's about as sideways as you can get to being sorry.

From: Chicago | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Éoric of the Riddermark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2302

posted      Profile for Éoric of the Riddermark   Author's Homepage   Email Éoric of the Riddermark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
WGW, it speaks very well of you to offer this thread, and the explanation you have, for all of us.

I'm not nearly as noble. I would have said something along the lines of "there was poop in the toilet, so I flushed it." []

From: Wilsonville, OR | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mithrennaith
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5239
posted      Profile for Mithrennaith   Author's Homepage   Email Mithrennaith   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
My compliments, Steward. That was very well done, and I mean not so much the ban as the way you gave her enough rope.

I have been thinking for several days about saying something somewhere here in the Announcements about the situation. For I must confess her behavior in this thread irritated me no end. It was the reason I did not contribute, whereas I would normally love to debate the subject, but I did not want to spend time, thought and emotion on a fruitless debate over nonsense. I toyed with the idea of posting some observation on obviousness and absurdity, in the vein of Madomir's final quote of Freya's about holes, but I decided against it. I didn't want to become embroiled and I wasn't confident I could keep it clean.

But on the whole, I thought she was wantonly nasty in that thread, and those who had tried to put her on the right track by debating the facts at issue had not given her any cause.

I could of course have taken this as an insult, but I didn't think it was clear enough, and I chose instead to bury her under the evidence that she was wrong. She didn't return to that thread ...

e: one more appropriate word

[ 05-29-2009, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Mithrennaith ]

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I am in too great doubt to rule. To prepare or to let be? To prepare for war, which is yet only guessed: train craftsmen and tillers in the midst of peace for bloodspilling and battle: put iron in the hands of greedy captains who will love only conquest, and count the slain as their glory? Will they say to Eru: At least your enemies were amongst them? Or to fold hands, while friends die unjustly: let men live in blind peace, until the ravisher is at the gate? What then will they do: match naked hands against iron and die in vain, or flee leaving the cries of women behind them? Will they say to Eru: At least I spilled no blood?
'When either way may lead to evil, of what worth is choice? Let the Valar rule under Eru!
- Tar Meneldur [UT 2 II:173-174]

From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nash Rómerandir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2903

posted      Profile for Nash Rómerandir   Author's Homepage   Email Nash Rómerandir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I'll continue with Eoric's metaphor and just say:

"Thanks for the courtesy flush WGW..."

[ 05-29-2009, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Nash Rómerandir ]

From: Cuiviénen (well, people call this place France) | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hamfast Gamgee
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5528

posted      Profile for Hamfast Gamgee   Author's Homepage   Email Hamfast Gamgee   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks WGW! I did think it only a matter of time before this happened! I wonder if Stgw was Wiki in disguise? I suppose we could think about that one till the end of time. No proof of course, but there where times she made posts that I thought could only have come from Wiki. The other alternative is even more scary that there is somewhere in America is an entire town of Wiki's! That could make a good horror movie!

[ 05-29-2009, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Hamfast Gamgee ]

From: Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire! | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Thorin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 816
posted      Profile for Thorin   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Well, she certainly was a jerk but I’ll miss her Tolkien enthusiasm.
From: Helsinki | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Madomir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 3084

posted      Profile for Madomir   Email Madomir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Thorin. It's really too bad with both her and wiki that the enthusiasm, knowledge and strong opinions had to bring so much baggage along with it.

No doubt there was a fair bit of action behind the scenes, but from the sampling I saw of the situation I think WGW deserves credit for his tactful handling of this unfortunate event. []

From: northern hemisphere-ish | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Thorin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 816
posted      Profile for Thorin   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Edit: Funny, I just read her edit near the bottom of page 1 of the source thread above. I don't think it would have made much difference, even if I had followed the chronology correctly. It's about as sideways as you can get to being sorry.
Eh, I wouldn't put too much into that, WGW. In her last post in that thread she originally called you "paranoid" but then edited it out. It wasn't a tentative dip into the pool of apology, it was trying to tightrope walk between the normal aggressive confrontation without ticking off the big guy.
From: Helsinki | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Varnafindë
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4097

posted      Profile for Varnafindë   Author's Homepage   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
banned for the present
Does this mean that you haven't given up on her - that if she mails you a sincere apology, you'll lift the ban?
From: Narnia, also connected with Norway | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor pi
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5374

posted      Profile for pi   Author's Homepage   Email pi   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It's really too bad with both her and wiki that the enthusiasm, knowledge and strong opinions had to bring so much baggage along with it.
spot on.
From: Virgo Supercluster, 40º N 75º W | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nash Rómerandir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2903

posted      Profile for Nash Rómerandir   Author's Homepage   Email Nash Rómerandir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
We've got a saying here which translates more or less as "Too bad the baby had to go down the drain along with the bath water." I guess it applies quite well...
From: Cuiviénen (well, people call this place France) | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270

posted      Profile for Marcho Blackwood - MSS   Email Marcho Blackwood - MSS   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I agree WGW, and humbly apologize for not stepping up. I must say that I was on the verge of 'stepping in' the other day. I was rather incensed with the discussion regarding the US. I crafted three paragraphs or so and was about to post when I decided that there were too many other things going on in my life to get tangled at that point. I ended up with a single line regarding Quebec.

The fact that I'm unemployed for the first time in my life, two high school graduates about to head to college, no transportation and a computer with half the key caps missing and I'm in no position to think straight.

Thanks for the flush!

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Marcho Blackwood, MSS - #16 Brookshade Close - Bindbale, North Farthing, The Shire
1st Winner Mahanaxar's Boy Howdy of Approval with 2 Bronze Stars (3rd Award) & Balrog Cluster with Laurel.
King of Grammar with Queen SSA
Sass this hoopy hobbit frood who really knows where his towel is!

From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Glóin the Dark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2102

posted      Profile for Glóin the Dark   Author's Homepage   Email Glóin the Dark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
It's a shame when someone who isn't an out-and-out troll goes and gets themselves banned, but it seems an even bigger shame that a solitary individual can (intentionally or not) bring down the general mood of the forums so successfully - with regular members apparently being discouraged from posting at all. I'm sure that - provided there's any desire to - consistent incivility can be sidelined rather than made the centre of attention, where it seems to thrive. With a bit of level-headedness, good humour and camaraderie among the majority, the offending poster can be left to prattle away until they get banned, without everyone else getting wound-up or angry or bored in the interim...
From: Belfalas | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wetwang
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1508

posted      Profile for Wetwang   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I predict a new citizen registering with the screen-name Gerald, the Relatively Mediocre Magician in about a months time! []

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Keep the earth under your feet, & clay on your fingers; wisdom in your bones, & have both eyes open!
That's Mr Wang™ to you!
This place would be a paradise tomorrow if every department had a supervisor with a submachine gun.

This bog is thick and easy...

From: West Sussex UK, well on the seafront in Bognor Regis actually! | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270

posted      Profile for Marcho Blackwood - MSS   Email Marcho Blackwood - MSS   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I suspect that there is a way of validating the IP address of a user. I know there are methods on other boards. The IP address can be blocked as well.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Marcho Blackwood, MSS - #16 Brookshade Close - Bindbale, North Farthing, The Shire
1st Winner Mahanaxar's Boy Howdy of Approval with 2 Bronze Stars (3rd Award) & Balrog Cluster with Laurel.
King of Grammar with Queen SSA
Sass this hoopy hobbit frood who really knows where his towel is!

From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Glóin the Dark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2102

posted      Profile for Glóin the Dark   Author's Homepage   Email Glóin the Dark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Colin the Congenial Conjurer.
From: Belfalas | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nash Rómerandir
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2903

posted      Profile for Nash Rómerandir   Author's Homepage   Email Nash Rómerandir   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I'd bet for Frank the Ultimate Conjurer-King, Young Oxford University student... [] (Acronyms are everything!)

The problem with IP banning Marcho is that IPs aren't "definitive". The IP you're using today will probably have changed by tomorrow... Most ISP use "pools" of IPs that they distribute randomly to their users every 24 hours (or so)... So blocking a given IP won't keep the culprit from coming back tomorrow, and blocking the whole set of IPs would mean banning a lot of people who simply happen to use the same ISP as the culprit...

Things might change once IPv6 is implemented, we may all get fixed IPs... But, since ISPs are actually charging their customers to give them a fixed IP, I doubt unless some law is passed to force them into fixing everyone's IP (something highly unlikely) then they'll keep the "randomly distributed IPs" system.

In short, it's not as simple as it might look to actually ban someone who knows his/her way around... Because, even if we all had fixed IPs, you still couldn't keep anyone from coming in using a proxy site, hence "faking" his/her IP...

[ 05-30-2009, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Nash Rómerandir ]

From: Cuiviénen (well, people call this place France) | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Glóin the Dark
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 2102

posted      Profile for Glóin the Dark   Author's Homepage   Email Glóin the Dark   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Especially if they can do magic.
From: Belfalas | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Marcho Blackwood - MSS
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 270

posted      Profile for Marcho Blackwood - MSS   Email Marcho Blackwood - MSS   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I understand about IP Pools, I've only been working in the industry for 25 years. But they can still be identified and chances are high that they will be the same block. And more providers are assigning a specific IP to cable modems, partially to help with vandalism.

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Marcho Blackwood, MSS - #16 Brookshade Close - Bindbale, North Farthing, The Shire
1st Winner Mahanaxar's Boy Howdy of Approval with 2 Bronze Stars (3rd Award) & Balrog Cluster with Laurel.
King of Grammar with Queen SSA
Sass this hoopy hobbit frood who really knows where his towel is!

From: Bindbale, North Farthing | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ulairë Gordis
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 5350

posted      Profile for Ulairë Gordis   Author's Homepage   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
"A Good Old-Fashioned Witch Banning"
Ohh, finally... Thank you WGW! []

quote:
Mithrennaith: For I must confess her behavior in this thread irritated me no end. ...But on the whole, I thought she was wantonly nasty in that thread, and those who had tried to put her on the right track by debating the facts at issue had not given her any cause.
I am with Mith here. Debating with her felt like banging your head on a brick wall - repeatedly. Madomir was right, one had to be part-masochist to try. [] And add to that all the insults she was letting fly so freely. Nah.
From: Minas Morgul | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Indil
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4434

posted      Profile for Indil   Author's Homepage   Email Indil   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you WGW! Nice job on the "weasle trap" as she would have put it!

quote:
In her last post in that thread she originally called you "paranoid" but then edited it out.
She was doing that all the time - even editting after someone else had posted a response to her post.

quote:
Does this mean that you haven't given up on her - that if she mails you a sincere apology, you'll lift the ban?
IIRC, that rule applied to WiKi, so it'll probably go for Sarah as well.
From: The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
White Gold Wielder
Steward of Minas Tirith
Citizen # 2

posted      Profile for White Gold Wielder   Author's Homepage   Email White Gold Wielder   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
It's easier to stay out of prison in the first place than to expect to be paroled. On the way in, it's only about the crime. On the way out, it's about a complete assessment of character.

In fairness, I would honestly say that a personal communication showing an awareness of her problems along with a sincere willingness to change would go a long way to getting her back in a probationary capacity.

In reality, it's probably like Manson's lawyer pleading with him to not act quite so crazy during the parole hearings. You don't act so antisocial in the first place if you had the ability all along to simply turn it off.

From: Chicago | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Varnafindë
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4097

posted      Profile for Varnafindë   Author's Homepage   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I guess that is a realistic assessment of the reality, WGW.
She has a chance - but then she's had a chance to change her behavior for a long time already, and it didn't happen.

From: Narnia, also connected with Norway | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Indil
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 4434

posted      Profile for Indil   Author's Homepage   Email Indil   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
I just saw Sarah on the main page... Just curious how that is possible? Is Sarah allowed back in?
From: The Netherlands | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
White Gold Wielder
Steward of Minas Tirith
Citizen # 2

posted      Profile for White Gold Wielder   Author's Homepage   Email White Gold Wielder   New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post 
It's not an IP ban, so she can still login, but posting rights, etc are removed.
From: Chicago | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Create a New Topic  Create a New Poll  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » Minas Tirith Site Announcements » A Good Old-Fashioned Witch Banning (Page 1)
This topic is comprised of pages:  1  2  3 
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic       The Red Arrow!       Admin Options: Make Topic Sticky   Close Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic

About  ~ • ~  Contact  ~ • ~  Minas Tirith  ~ • ~  F. A. Q.  ~ • ~  Help

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.6.1