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Minas Tirith Forums » Minas Tirith Site Announcements » Ideal Minas Tirith Citizen (Page 4)
Author Topic: Ideal Minas Tirith Citizen
Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1148

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Fine, I'll stay out of your threads. Nothing against me but I can't be involved it Tolkien threads you start?

Kind of a lie, huh?

In what way was my behavior in the Silm thread objectionable?

And I suppose you'll do the same, and stay out of mine?

[ 10-12-2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Mad Uncle Rupert ]

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 374

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And yes, fourth time around I assume the worst from you. And you well know why.

If you are going to assume the worst from me, then I'd just assume you not post to my threads. So yes, it is nothing personal against you. It is based on problems that you have with me.

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Raven
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1284

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And I thought Fingy and Saurman had a fighting problem. Please gentlemen,this is a thread to try and improve MT and all you two can do is bicker like old prunes.
From: Garden State | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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Citizen # 374

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Yes it is rather silly isn't it?
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Roll of Honor Mandin
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 415

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As I like and respect both MUR and Tuor, I can look at this objectively.
Tuor: Fingo and I did indeed foster the bad behavior of the citizens in question. This does not mean they should not be banned for what they have done, but it certainly means that we should shut up and leave their inn.
MUR, Tuor's question that set this all going was, in my opinion, aptly put to an ambiguous statement on your part. Unfortunately, from past experiences with Tuor, you were somewhat blind to this, and thus the fight erupted.
However, let us suppose that Tuor was spitefully attempting to make you look bad. What would have happened had you simply answered the question as a question not an confrontation? Quite simply, fight over. If it continues, Tuor looks bad.
Tuor, from MUR's replies, you could tell he was ticked with your supposed suggestions that he condoned bad behavior as long as it didn't include profanity. If he was ticked, you probably could have safely assumed that he did not hold this belief at all. If you had done so, and made a conciliatory post, bang! argument ends and if MUR had continued, he looks bad.
As it is, you both look ridiculous.
Respecfully submitted to your perusal.
Mandin

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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Citizen # 1148

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Nicely put, Mandin!

I suppose it is possible that I over reacted. Yet in my past dealings with this individual, I have been repeatedly burned. Must I stick my hand in the fire every time to know that it hurts? I did not respond this way the first three times, and it continued. Experience teaches, doesn't it?

However, for the sake of peace, I shall let it drop.

Quoting the Rule here would be helpful:

quote:
- You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use Minas Tirith to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violates any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by Minas Tirith.
Does insulting behavior fit into this Rule? And if it does, what else does? Let's say, for the moment, that I had let it be known that I do not prefer people to say: "I pray for you." If the person continues to do so, is it Harassing? If, as in the former arguement (and I bring it up as an example), I said that I was being misquoted, and the person continues the same line, would that be both inaccurate and false? In this case, would it warrant a warning, or if continued, banning?

The point is, it doesn't. I never approached WGW with complaints about Tuor because I do not believe he is particularly bad for MT and I believe he adds value to the site. At the same time, I do wish such things wouldn't come up.

Following this line, if two persons engage in an exchange of insults, what do you do? Pick one, or both? It's a hard choice.

[ 10-12-2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Mad Uncle Rupert ]

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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Citizen # 374

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Nice post Mandin.
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Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Citizen # 156

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MUR, so you feel that I really did not have a right to respond initially because the comment was made in their inn?

In case you didn't notice I did not respond in kind but simply asked what it was I would have to shove up my... []

Further as was cited previously I was refered to as the 'buttcrack of MT' did I then respond in kind to that? I am willing to ignore some but there is only so much I am willing to take especially in a place where such direct and profane insults are not allowed. If this makes me just a bad as those who insult me then sobeit. []

[ 10-12-2002, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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No, I do not. That is an assumption that has been fostered by others. My comments are in regard to the continuing conflict, not the beginnings of the same.

My statements are that since the conflict (insults) are enjoined by both, the complaints would be arbitrary. I do believe it has continued too long, but if you read my statements, I have clearly stated I take no sides in it.

This is why I am against arbitrary assumptions of other people's posts. Misinformation is created.

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Citizen # 156

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You you consider my actions and the actions of the opposing 3 to be ethically(given the rules) on the same level(given as you say you are on the fence)?
From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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This has to be fairly difficult decision.

Consider the concept of Vigilanteism. A person commits a murder. Vigilantes kill the murderer. Even if they are correct in the guilty party, are they right? No, not really. They have behaved outside of the Law.

In the case here, if they were the offending party, the correct thing to do would be to report the incident to WGW and allow him to act. If this was not done, then you have chosen to handle it yourself, and must suffer the consequences for your actions, should they violate the Rule.

Once lowered to the level of the offender, it is difficult to claim innocence.

Now, I do not know all of the facts, obviously. This is why I focused on the vulgarity, which is an easy call. In the case of a continuing dispute, it is difficult to assign blame if both parties violate the Rule.

At the same time, I generally believe in handling things yourself, when possible. If you are right, you are right.

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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Is the kid who brings a gun to school because he doesn't like an individual who bothers him get to claim the same right of: "they lowered themselves to my level?"

[ 10-12-2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Tuor ]

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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What is exactly the reason he brought the gun? Did he do so out of fear? Or because he is unprotected? Or did he do so simply because he doesn't like the kid?

If he fears, or is unprotected, then no, he doesn't.

If it's simply a matter of dislike, then not only does he lower himself to that level, he exceeds it.

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Fingolfin of the Noldor
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Citizen # 156

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So where exactly have I broken the rules? []

Are you saying that if I am shot that I can't say that they were wrong in shooting me?

[ 10-12-2002, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Fingolfin of the Noldor ]

From: Worcester, MA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
Guard of the Citadel
Citizen # 1148

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*groan*

quote:
So where exactly have I broken the rules?
My statement was:

quote:
If this was not done, then you have chosen to handle it yourself, and must suffer the consequences for your actions, should they violate the Rule.

I did not say you had broken the rules, just that you would be responsible if you did.

quote:
Are you saying that if I am shot that I can't say that they were wrong in shooting me?

No. I'm saying that if you are shot, you cannot shoot them for vengence. You can say they are wrong as much as you like.
From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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But you see MUR, Fingy never fired.

The 'gun shot' represents the personal attack.

I did not say you had broken the rules, just that you would be responsible if you did.

So you are saying that Fingy is responsible for being "shot" because he was, from their point of view, bothering them.

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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No, I am not.

quote:
So you are saying that Fingy is responsible for being "shot" because he was, from their point of view, bothering them.
I said he would be responsible if he broke the rules. If he did not, he would have nothing to be responsible for.
From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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So you are saying that Fingy is in no way responsible for the personal attack that has been made upon him.
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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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From what I can tell, no, he isn't responsible. I don't really know what led up to it, of course, but if Fingolfin did nothing to provoke the attack (such as attacking), then he has no responsibility.
From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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Citizen # 374

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So once again you try to say two things at once.

The fact is that Fingy posted to Saruman's thread.

Does this make Fingy in part responsible for being attacked?

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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Citizen # 1148

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No, once again I say two different things and you fail to understand my meaning.

If Fingolfin did nothing, in the beginning, to warrant attack, then he has no responsibility for that attack.

If Fingolfin then continues to be involved in the conflict without requesting intervention, then anything he does that violates the rules he is responsible for.

Let me ask you a question: If Saruman insults Fingy, and uses profanity, does that mean he can use profanity in return?

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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Citizen # 374

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No

Two wrongs don't make a right. I believe Fingy has shown good character by refraining.

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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So what's the conflict?

If we both agree, what's the question? If we both agree that violating the rules doesn't make it right, then the insulting would also break the rules. If he doesn't do these things, then no problem. If he does, then he is wrong as well.

From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tuor
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The problem lies in the 'who is at fault' clause you place in your response.

Are you saying that to the best of your knowledge, Fingy is not to at all to blame for the personal attack?

In no way did Fingy make a personal attack, but he did enter a thread made by those he knows dislikes him. According to what you've said, for this reason Fingy could be at fault.

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Roll of Honor Mad Uncle Rupert
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No, not at all. And I don't really understand why you keep saying that. I stated that if he broke a rule, he would be responsible for that violation. How is that a clause, as you just agreed to it?
From: Playing softball with the Nazarenes | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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