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Minas Tirith Forums » The Green Dragon » The Theft of Umbar - A Word Aside (Page 64)
Author Topic: The Theft of Umbar - A Word Aside
Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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Cernunnos!!! Great to see you! I was beginning to get worried - and not entirely without cause, it seems. Good that some of your absence was a happy holiday, though!

And our epic goes on again ... I think I need to do some PM discussion []

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Cernunnos
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Please do . . .

A point re Tahalian: surely he (and the lore of Umbar in general) would not refer to Castimir as 'the Usurper'?

[ 06-20-2009, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
A point re Tahalian: surely he (and the lore of Umbar in general) would not refer to Castimir as 'the Usurper'?
Good point - I didn't think far enough when writing it, but that would be the term used in Gondor, from Umbar's enemy's point of view. All about who writes the history books, right? []

Give me a better term, and I'll change it!

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Cernunnos
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The 'Trueborn', perhaps?
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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Sounds good to me!

*goes to change it*

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Cernunnos
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At last, some movement!

PM for you, Varnafindë.

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Cernunnos
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Substantial post added.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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And the plot tightens! []
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Cernunnos
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i) That woz quik!

ii) I think it had to - it had been 'wandering' too long.

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Cernunnos
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Nice twist to the plot. Of course, he would, wouldn't he?! Hadn't occurred to me at all!

[] [] []

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Cernunnos
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quote:
seek stripes
ie. risk getting whipped.

Cf LotR 'The Voice of Saruman':

quote:
'Saruman, Saruman!' said Gandalf still laughing. 'Saruman, you missed your path in life. You should have been the king's jester and earned your bread, and stripes too, by mimicking his counsellors . . .'


[ 09-16-2009, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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So there's an uninvited guest to the meeting? []
Well, Wrybeak should have every right to be there, as he's the only one with first-hand evidence!

P.S. Did you read my PM?

[ 09-16-2009, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Varnafindë ]

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Cernunnos
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Read & approved.
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Cernunnos
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Actually, Wrybeak was always going to be 'revealed' at this point. His presence is a most persuasive argument. He certainly gets their attention! You will also have noted he does not consider himself the least intellectually inferior to the 'two-legged'.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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quote:
he does not consider himself the least intellectually inferior to the 'two-legged'.
He has every reason not to []

He is indeed their best argument. How else could they claim such knowledge as they do? They don't want to claim to be able to "look into all hearts".
But here they can give a first-hand (or perhaps first-claw) report.

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Cernunnos
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quote:
Once it bore us out of the West.
I am not suggesting that Gimilbâr and his House arrived with Elendil. Theirs is rather a clan of 'King's Men' who settled in Umbar some time before the Downfall. Their Númenorean descent, tho' certainly believed in by Gimilbâr, is by this time doubtless tenuous at best.

Tho' he does turn out to sound quite a lot like Denethor!

[ 09-21-2009, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Loremaster
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Captain Tirandun hasn't been told about the Palantir - he thinks they are going to try to free Nimlothel.

Why he thinks that would be easier on a peaceful day, I'm not sure. Perhaps he thinks their pursuers would be less inclined to fight to the death under the Peace of the Temple ...

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Cernunnos
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Excellent post, Loremaster, and doubly excellent to have you return to 'Theft'. To have three contributing instead of just the two of us will be bliss. Equally, it was high time Tirandún came back into the story, but I had seen no way of contriving it.


quote:
That tub of lard, Kaléfi.
The Governor's name is of course Akang fa Akiru (and his son the 'Young Lion' is Telam fa Akang). 'Kaléfi' identifies him by his 'country'. This custom is borrowed from rural Scotland, where it is still common to hear a farmer identified, or even addressed, by the name of his land.

[ 09-21-2009, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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I seem to remember from Shakespeare's historical plays somewhere, about the King of France talking to "our brother England".

Thank you for having Nimlothel winning freedom for her friend Kalashel!
Great idea!

And I'll accept your kind words on Loremaster's behalf. []

Edit:
When I was rereading the old posts about Tirandun, I came across Orofacion referring to "Castamir the Dark". Would this have been a "neutral" term for Castamir the Usurper - is it a canon term, or another fanfic term? Should we have used it again - as in our discussion a few posts back?
(Or is it a different Castamir? [] )

[ 09-22-2009, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Varnafindë ]

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Cernunnos
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Maybe a name of Oro's own devising? I don't remember where he used it before.
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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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This is the post where I found it. But he doesn't use it again. Should we change what we made, or should we just let Castamir have several 'nicknames'? I guess it would be plausible that he should be called by more than one such name.

And in case you haven't seen it yet - there is an answer to your PM again ...
Edit: which you've read now. []

[ 09-22-2009, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Varnafindë ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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I'll have one or two more posts about Nimlothel and the Spring cleaning soon - I decided I wouldn't wait to post until the whole section was ready, though.
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Cernunnos
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Just a little further incentive for Nimlothel to take her leave of The City!

[] []

It was about time we heard from Edeb-Nargûl in any case. He has hitherto been a rather marginal character. Not a nice man at all. I trust we can contrive some way of getting him killed before the end of the story. Perhaps Adanedhel could take him on/out? E-N has real skills as a warrior, tho', so watch out!

[]

[ 09-30-2009, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Roll of Honor Varnafindë
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[] []

( [] )

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Cernunnos
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The Seven Bowed Bridge.

There are four bridges over the Bahar within Umbar:

From East to West, these are -

i) The Seven Bowed Bridge, which crosses the Bahar at the north end of the Fifth House's ward.*
ii) The Old Bridge. This was built by the Númenoreans in the Second Age, of truly colossal blocks of granite (think of stones as huge as those used at Sacsahuaman [Peru] or Baalbek [Lebanon]), and hence is immensely ancient - indeed, the oldest structure surviving in The City, except for parts of the defensive walls. Being literally thousands of years old, it is inevitably much altered and patched, especially the roadway and its walls. Nevertheless, indwellers who claim Númenorean descent (such as Lord Gimilbâr) are immensely proud it has managed to stand so long, through every natural and man-made disaster.
iii) The Brothers' Bridge. Attributed to Angamaitë and Sangyando. It is the Seven Bowed Bridge that is nearest to the Fifth House's ward, however.
iv) The King's Bridge. This bridge is incomplete: partially ruined in an earthquake and never rebuilt. Only the first three arches ('bows') on the north side survive (cf the Pont d'Avignon). These are within the ward of the Eighth House, and their Lord has a fortress built at the end, right out into the river. This Bridge - ironically, the most recent to be built - was very wide, with enormous breakwaters, and once lined with houses and shops (like the Ponte Vecchio in Florence, or Old London bridge, but even larger). Where the structure adjoins the bank, it is protected by a strong gatehouse. Very convenient for taking ship from, of course.


* The Fifth House's part of The City is the east corner of the south side, bounded by the Great Harbour (and the Baron's territory) to the west, the town wall to the east, and the Bahar to the north. There are four wards south of the river and six wards north of it, largely because the Harbour and the Great Bazaar are in the south half, both taking up a large part of the space within The City's walls on that side the river. The Temple is north of the river, on the east side of an 'immense' square, as described (tho' not as large an area as the Great Bazaar), near the end of the Seven Bowed Bridge, so that the Temple Enclosure, set on a natural outcrop of rock, is quite near the Bahar.

The Temple, by the way, implied to be a relatively recent structure, is built on the site of the Númenorean citadel of Umbar. Hence its high defensive walls and the large open space in front of it in a densely-inhabited city (which would, of course, otherwise seem odd).

NB I don't know how I know all this about Umbar, but I do.

[] []

[ 10-04-2009, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Cernunnos ]

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Create a New Topic  Reply to this Topic Minas Tirith Forums » The Green Dragon » The Theft of Umbar - A Word Aside (Page 64)
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